Official Luthiers Forum!

Al,
Based on your response, I strongly suggest getting one of the cheaper
500cfm dust collectors to collect most of the dust.

The need for a really good dust collector is really for those of us that
spend many hours a day in a workshop. For you, I seriously doubt the
health hazards from dust will be more significant than other
environmental pollutants.

Therefore, I would get an inexpensive Delta or similar dust collector and
also use a good dust mask when you are at the parts of construction that
really make a lot of dust.

Good luck,
Simon

Thanks Rod!, sounds like good deals up there!

That leaves me with one more question though...

I do have a shop vac and a big garbage can with a plastic lid that creates sort of a cyclone effect and that i purchased from Lee Valley...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=30282&cat=1,42 401&ap=1

The big particles fall at the bottom of the garbage can and the smallest find their way to the shop vac with filter

Is that system, coupled with this air filter like this onegood enough for my shop that's ~ 11' X 22"??? TIA

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=30278&cat=1,42 401&ap=1

Serge

The real question is how big is your shop vac? What is the amperage rating?

Since you have the separator that helps you tons with the capacity, but the real deal is in the amount of air your moving.

The air filter (according to Lee Valley specs) is fine for circulating the air in you shop (cleaning of the fine particles).

As similar with compressors, bigger is usually better

I guess the other question is, how well does your system work, say when you hook it up to your thickness sander? Do you still have a lot of dust that is not being picked up from the shop vac/separator? Or do you have very little? The other test would be to take a piece of wood that has some good weight to it, say 2-4 lbs maybe and see if the vac can hold in on the hose without it coming dropping off when you hold it upside down. Know what I meen? This is very unscientific, but test it out, this will show you the power of your shop vac, of course the more weight it can hold, the more power it has and the better suction it has. This is also dependent on the hose size of course. The larger the hose, the more static pressure your trying to overcome, the less suction, therefore the more power required.

Most good shop vacs will have a 2-/1/2" hose and should be able to pick up just about anything you throw at it.

Take a look at this review of shop vacs for some more reading. Shop vac testRod True39039.6299074074

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

i can't emphasize it enough, read bill pentz site on dust collecting. the information contained therein is necessary for you to make an effort to protect your short and long term welbeing.

but basically a shop vac moves small volumes of air at high pressure, whereas a dust collector moves large volumes of air at low pressure. if, for instance, i use one of my shop vacs on my dewalt planer compared to even my small portable dust collector(it is the only tool i have other than my ros's and my small deltal 1x30/5in disk sander which can accept a shop vac), the difference is like night and day. and still the small collector does not draw a high enough volume of air flow to get the fine, really dangerous dust. it basically just gets the chips. but as it was given to me by a friend i don't want to part with it and basically now only use it to collect chips when i'm working outside. using my central system the difference is night and day. there is no comparison.crazymanmichael39039.7199768519

Thanks for the great read Rod! i know that when i hook up my system to my drum sander, i have just a little dust but i think Michael is right here with the dust collector being more efficient with large volumes of air at low pressure, especially with the micron sized particles, it makes a lot of sense, i'll start saving money for a very good unit me thinks!

Last question remaining if i may, when the time comes to empty those dust collectors, is there a way not to be exposed to the dust other than to wear a mask? Is it safely done, how does it work please?

if there is, i haven't figured it out yet. i take the bin outside and, well, wear a mask!

I was going to say the same as Michael.

That's where a cyclone is very very good, just need to empty the lower bin. Also, having a canister on top of a dust collector is better than the bags for this (this is the secondary reason mind you, the primary is as Michael stated earlier that the bags, just to contain or capture the fine particals as good as the canisters.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Thanks guys!

I agree Hesh, besides, all the untrapped dust will just settle into the carpet nicely

Off topic, don't you ever get questions from your neighbours or are you past that by now?

I'm sure you could come up with some very fun "stories" to tell them.

"Oh, I'm a hobby surgeon. I help people who don't have insurance with minor surgery's."

"Oh, the noise.....I've recently opened up a home based butcher shop. Need any meat?"

"I'm building a airplane in my living room. Don't know how I'm going to get it out though."

"I just about finished with the scaled down Taj Mahal in the master bedroom. It's our place of worship "

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

You're just brilliant bud!

the problem with using a shop vac is that it only moves small amounts of air. while the hepa filter will ensure that virtually nothing harmful will be exhaused by the machine, it doesn't address the essention problem of using a vacuum cleaner as a dust collector.

we do not have seals between our dust hoods, our tools and around our work, and thus to get the small dust a large volume of air has to be moved to entrain all the fines.

even on a 5" ros a shop vac cannot move enough air to get the small stuff, much less on a large cutting tool or a thickness sander. i have several shop vacs, the best of which is the big fein, and none move enough air. that is why i have a downdraft table which i use whenever possible.

you will see a world of difference when you use the dust collector. i haven't heard of a bag that will get 0.05 micron dust. 0.5 maybe. i think my torit cartridges are supposed to be effective down to 0.2 micron, so the bag would not be far behind.

as far as the air cleaners go, i think the standard recommendation is that the cleaner be able to process a volume of air equal to the room volume six times an hour. however, it's efficiency is affected by its placement and resultant air circulation patterns in the room. if you are working the machine will virtually never catch up to to you. it is best to have it on a time switch so that you can leave it running after you finish.

crazymanmichael39040.6073726852

[quote=crazymanmichael]as far as the air cleaners go, i think the standard recommendation is that the cleaner be able to process a volume of air equal to the room volume six times an hour. however, it's efficiency is affected by its placement and resultant air circulation patterns in the room. if you are working the machine will virtually never catch up to to you. it is best to have it on a time switch so that you can leave it running after you finish. [/quote]

or if you have such a small shop like I do (185 sft with 9 foot ceiling) get the biggest air cleaner you can (my home made one is running at speed setting #2, approx 800 CFM, so the air is being cleaned like 30 times per hour I sure notice the difference when I don't have it on (forget to plug it in).

If making a home build air cleaner, try to find a direct drive furnace fan, it all fits nicely into the box, also make sure it's large enough to move lots of air.

As Michael has mentioned several times here, air movement is the key.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson